Hard Fast Rule

02/04/2003 11:00 PM, LAUNCH
Billy Johnson Jr

No one really knows Ja Rule's whole story. Some believe that he made his debut on the hip-hop scene via a 1998 cameo appearance on Jay-Z's "Can I Get A ..."; others consider him to be the king of hip-hop R&B thanks to his recent chart-topping duets with Jennifer Lopez, Ashanti, and Mary J. Blige. But while each of these efforts greatly enhanced Ja Rule's notoriety, he's actually been around a bit longer than many realize: Before he began releasing records on Def Jam, he was in a group called Cash Money Click that scored a couple underground hits. And while DMX maintains that he influenced Ja Rule's growling, sing-song rap style, the Queens, New York-bred artist vehemently denies such charges. When LAUNCH's urban editor Billy Johnson Jr. recently sat down with Ja Rule to learn his story, they also discussed Ja's new album, The Last Temptation, as well his recent "Thug Lovin'" collaboration with the infamous Bobby Brown, his budding film career, and what it was like to grow up in the same town as Run-DMC, whose Jam Master Jay was murdered in October 2002. Read on and find out what Ja had to say:

LAUNCH: So, how did you pull of getting Bobby Brown to contribute to "Thug Lovin'"?

JA RULE: I knew Bob for a while. Bob was my man, so it wasn't that hard. But I actually got the idea from [the Martin Lawrence film] A Thin Line Between Love And Hate--you know, they play that Stevie Wonder record in there, and Bob's in that movie, wild dancing around Martin. I seen the movie so I was like, "That's who I need--I need Bob." I called Bob and got him on the joint.

LAUNCH: At what point did you meet Irv Gotti?

JA RULE: Me and Irv Gotti met in '92, '93, through a mutual friend, my man Jody. We instantly hit off--the first time we went into the studio, we hit it off. We did a few records, and we formed a group called Cash Money Click, and that was my first introduction into the music world. I had a single that was short-lived, "4 My Click," and that's what really got the attention of other eyes, mainly Leo Cohen at Def Jam--he seen me in the video and thought I had a lot of energy and thought I'd make a good artist to be on his roster. So he kind of reached out to see what we were about, and when he met us, he was overwhelmed with our energy and Gotti's presence, and how Gotti was so passionate about the business and the artists. So he hired Gotti as an A&R rep, and from there things just started growing.

LAUNCH: So how did you decide to go solo and break away from Cash Money Click?

JA RULE: That kind of happened by chance. My man Black went to jail for five years for, you know, street crimes--something that he didn't even really do, but we won't get into that--but he got locked up for five years, and that kind of forced the group to do its own thing. And I did my solo thing on Def Jam and made it happen. Put out my first album--Venni Vetti Vecci, we did 1.5 to 2 million with that album. Then it was only problems from there--after that album, a lot of people still didn't believe that I was the truth. So I came back fast with my next album, Rule 3:36, and that album was a message to the haters: "Who will believe in Ja, shall everlast in love; he who does not, should not see life without the wrath of my vengeance." That's the real title of the album. That's one of my rules, but I just summed it up as Rule 3:36. And I put that album out and we did, like, 3 to 4 million with that album. I think that's when people started to recognize.

LAUNCH: So can you explain why DMX claims that you stole your rap style from him?

JA RULE: Let me tell you the thing with DMX: DMX was a friend of Gotti and a friend of mine as well. DMX and I used to battle. Battle n-ggas back in the day, you know what I mean? Show up on n-ggas' video shoots, n-ggas in the industry...we was nice before we got into the industry. So now I was stuck in my deal with TVT Records, and X got his deal with Def Jam the same time as me--whatever, maybe a little before me--and he had an opportunity to put his music out before me, so when he put out his music, people naturally felt that when I came out I was trying to be similar to DMX, 'cause we have similar voices. But our styles are completely different, whatever. But as far as the hype-man, Gotti was like, "It would be a good idea for you and X to go out together." We were friends, so naturally I went out and helped my man, gave him a hand onstage, held him down. He was doing his thing and I was out there holding him down, but never was I a hype-man. A hype-man don't come out with albums, so I was his man holding him down. But if he wants to use that now to say I was his hype-man, then whatever, your hype-man sleighed you. Now, how you like that? However he wants to put it, well then, your hype-man is better than you! So, he's a guy that has his own issues within himself, and I think that he needs to work all that sh-t out before he even starts f--king with me, 'cause I'll destroy his career. He's a friend and I don't want to do that to him, so I'm trying to let him breath, but I think that by even mentioning sh-t about me he's hurting himself already, hurting his career. The fact that he came out and said anything about me and he didn't come to me first pissed me off, and I took his [release] date. Like, he was coming out in November, and then he wasn't coming out in November. I don't know when the f--k he's coming out. He's punted, push him back, 'cause his project is not as important as my project. He doesn't put out those kind of records; his thing was a gimmick. The dog barking, people ain't with that no more, they're about real music and hearing real lyrics and sh-t like that--what I'm doing, basically. But I wish him all the luck in the world.

LAUNCH: On the subject of DMX, on an article in The Source, you stated that not doing your planned collaboration album with Jay-Z and DMX turned out to be a good thing, because it allowed you to go in another direction. Why do you feel that way?

JA RULE: Well, we was all going to get together and do a record; it was talked about. Gotti was really the one who was trying to put it together and spearhead it and push it forward. But for some reason, it just could never get done. Egos got in the way. It wasn't my ego, obviously, 'cause I was the low man on the totem pole. I wasn't selling as many records. So it was these guys that was always bumping heads, bumping heads, bumping heads--not wanting to do it or whatever, when really I should have been the one feeling like, "If I'm this low man on the totem pole, it's going to look like I rode in on the game with you two guys, and I'll never have my own identity; I'll always look like the artist that rode off the Jay-Z and DMX coattails." I really should have been the one who was like, "Nah, I don't want to do that sh-t," but for the love of the music and for the love of my n-gga Gotti, I'm like, "Yo, let's do it. It'll be hot, and I'll just have to come up a different way. People will just have to learn that I'm am ill n-gga a different way." It didn't work out that way, and I'm glad it didn't. Like, everything works out for a reason, and it worked out that God meant for me to be here, where I am today and speaking what I'm saying. So that's why it didn't happen that way, and I'm good with it. And if it never happens, I'm good with it. If it happened back then it would have been hot, but I think if it happened now it wouldn't be as hot, you know what I'm saying?

LAUNCH: Still, you've done many other successful collaborations. Where did that come from? Did you seek those artists out, or did they come to you?

JA RULE: That's just stuff that I wanted to try, and I got an opportunity to do it and I ran for it. 'Cause really, in this rap game a lot of artists are scared to step out of their persona...their gimmick or whatever the f--k they do. They scared to take chances. I ain't afraid to take chances. I've taken chances all of my career. So when I got a chance to do Mariah or J.Lo or whatever, I took it and I went at it. And it came out positive for me. I'm the first rapper to do something like that--to write R&B records, pop records, for these artists. I'm the first rap artist to really do a duet with an R&B singer. Like, I'm not saying that I'm first to rap with an R&B singer--that's been done a million times--but the way and the style that I did it with J.Lo and with Mary J. Blige, those style of records, those are not just Mary singing and me rapping 16 bars or me rapping and Mary singing the hook. That's not that. Those are records where we are sharing the whole record, sharing the verses. And you know, I wrote those records--her parts, my parts--so that right there is taking rap somewhere else. That's what I want: the next artist to come out and go, "Yo, Ja Rule was writing R&B joints for Mary; now I can do that." I just want to give the next artist the incentive to go, "I can do that." There's artists right now feeling like, "Yo, why haven't I been doing that? Why haven't I tried that?" They're feeling like, "Damn, maybe I could have been the first to do that." But it's not a gimmick for me, it's a passion. So all those rappers that are jumping on the bandwagon right now, like "I can do that too," maybe you can, but you not passionate about it. You didn't think to do it, or you were scared to do it. So you didn't let your passion drive you. And that's what a lot of rappers don't understand. I'm driven by this. Like, this sh-t is in me. I live, breathe, and eat this, and they don't. And that's why I'm excelling and they're not. I mean, I don't really understand the backlash that I get from other artists. I'm going to mind my own business, make my records, and do what I do. I really don't understand it; it's just a lot of jealousy, a lot of hatred. But you always get that when you're at the top of the game.

LAUNCH: Speaking of being at the top of your game, now you're branching out into movies too, like last year's Half Past Dead. Is acting something that you'd like to pursue more than your current music career?

JA RULE: Well, in this business, I feel that I've done everything that I've needed to do. I mean, there's so much more that I can do, but I really feel that I'm ready to move on, because the rap business is rather childish. A lot of the rappers are childish. They can't stand to see another artist succeed. I was never mad at nobody for doing their thing. You know me: Jay- Z and DMX came up together and we was all broke, we was all in the same area, doing the same sh-t. And when Jay blew up, I was happy for Jay; when X, blew up I was happy for X. I'm happy for Nelly doing his numbers. Me and Nelly, we cool; I love to see all my black n-ggas get money, 'cause we was all f--ked up together. And now, for us for us to be making all this money and having problems with each other, it don't make no sense. N-ggas are stupid. That's why I'm like, "Keep that rap sh-t. I made my money, did my thing, made my records that people enjoyed what I did; now I'm going to step aside and let you all fight and shoot each other and do whatever the f--k you all want to do to over that." And it really is sad, because all of that crazy sh-t that's going on in the rap world has nothing to do with the music! But the music always gets pushed back. You know, all these senseless murders and slayings have nothing to do with the music. It's all about the streets and what's going on in the streets. Like, nobody blames a rock star overdosing on coke on the music. It ain't got nothing to do with the music. That's individual problems or history, past problems, or just an addiction with the drug--it has nothing to do with the music. And it's the same with rap. All of that violence has nothing to do with the music itself. I know you could sit there all day and say, "You got violent lyrics." I don't give a f--k! So does rock! So that's to say that everybody that commits suicide, blame it on the music, blame it on rock music. You can't do that. It's an expression of self, and if I'm expressing myself I'm allowed to say whatever the f--k I want to say; it's freedom of speech. So if I want to express myself about a situation that I've seen or that I've heard about that I think is wrong--or that I think was right--it's only my opinion. So you can't blame that on music. It's just a shame that rap takes that dive all the time, and I'm sick of the bullsh-t. I've grown: I've got two kids and one on the way. I'm a grown man. I don't got time for that sh-t. I can do films, write, produce soundtracks, do the scores for my movies, and have a great time, and I'll still put out music for my people. And guess what? All these idiot rappers won't be mad at me, 'cause I won't be putting out solo albums. You understand, they won't be like, "Why the f--k is he getting all the radio spins?" They won't have to cry about that no more. 'Cause I'll be over here and you'll all be over there doing all your little bullsh-t records or whatever. Have fun!

LAUNCH: How does that make you feel that you'll have to focus your energy on other things, since music is such a huge part of who you are?

JA RULE: I'm focusing my energies on other things 'cause I can. Because I feel I can transcend, or move on to something else. A lot of artists don't feel that they can do that. A lot of artists are stuck in one zone; they can only do one thing. Certain artists, they can only rap--they can only rap about cars, or this and that. Some artists can only rap about sex. You know, certain things just don't fit other artists' personas. Me, I can say what I want to: I rhyme about money, I rhyme about crime, I rhyme about drugs, I rhyme about women, I rhyme about relationships, I rhyme about love...I've covered the spectrum. I say whatever I want to rhyme about and people accept it, 'cause it's truthful. There's a passionate feeling when they hear it. When I talk about "Thug Lovin'," that's real sh-t. Like a lot of women out there think they want a nice clean wholesome guy, until they got him. And then they like, "You know what? I don't want this guy 'cause I can control him. I tell him to go outside and walk the dog, and he does it; I tell him to f--king sit down and squat, and he does it. I don't need that, I can't take that." Every women thinks they want that, then they get it and then they don't want it. What they really want is a man that can stand up for himself, take care of them, go out there and get them money by any means necessary--a thug. That's what they want in their life. And that's why I rhyme about it, 'cause that's life. And all my topics come from life issues.

LAUNCH: Let's talk about your new album, The Last Temptation.

JA RULE: I call my album The Last Temptation 'cause I feel like I'm the last temptation of hip-hop. And I know that sounds real cocky and crazy, but when I explain it, it sounds a little different. I was real young when I was out running around, like breakdancing, doing graffiti art, balling on the trains, trying to DJ and all that sh-t...that's the culture of hip-hop. And I think that a lot of artists that are rapping that are younger than me: I'm 26, and a lot of the new artists don't know about that. It's not their fault that they're too young to have a chance to experience breakdancing and popping and graffiti writing and all that--we just don't do that no more. So that's why I named my album The Last Temptation. There's a lot of last temptations of hip-hop, I feel. You know, they just don't think about it like that. They don't take it into consideration who they are. But anybody my age that's deeply rooted in hip-hop can consider themselves the last temptation. 'Cause anybody younger than me didn't the chance to feel the culture.

LAUNCH: You're from Queens, so--speaking of back in the day--you probably have some thoughts on the recent death Jam Master Jay...

JA RULE: Growing up in Queens was crazy, 'cause I used to see them--Run and DMC and Jam Master J coming through in the Cadi's. They had the big Cadi's back then coming through, shoes with no laces and all that. And they was my first inspiration to say, "I can do that." 'Cause sometimes professions are territorial: People don't believe that they can do something until they see somebody from their own backyard do it. You take a kid from Omaha or Idaho and they see me and the Nellys of the world on TV, and they like, "Damn, maybe you got to be from New York to be like that. You got to be from St. Louis to be like that. Nobody from here is a star." So sometimes it's territorial, but when you see it in your own neighborhood, it makes you feel and believe: "Yo, if they can do it and they live right here, then I can do it too." I believe people should believe in themselves, wherever they're from. But that's what I seen. I seen Jam, I seen D, so it made me believe.